Curse

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 18, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Also, I'm getting the impression that a lot of people in this thread aren't very good at observing or manipulating enemy positions. Getting adjacent targets isn't that hard, folks! Ya'll make it sound like it's a once-in-a-blue-moon event.
.

I know at least for me it is. It's hard to get AI to stay in one place, even if they -are- snared. Adjacent doesn't give much room to work with. Playing a dervish, I know hitting two-three people is a bit of a rarity. Granted the AoE is slightly smaller with dervs, but still. I cannot see maximizing the potential of barrage very often in casual play.

But AoE and Single Target DPS is two completely different strategies, really. Some people prefer to kill single targets fastest as an active defense, some prefer to hit as many things at once and have many things die at once. Put into perspective, you can't say Barrage is simply better then single target damage, because it's trying to accomplish different goals.

So, I'd like to hear your ways of getting all monsters to stick together in most battles, and I'm not even being sarcastic here lol. I can't see barrage worth using against volley unless you're hitting 5-6 people with it regularly.

Moonlit Azure · Feb 18, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage. Most groups of enemies spread, and then regroup again. If you attack them when they are regrouped, then you can hit them early on.

Of course once you hit them, the mob will break up and attack you, but there are still enemies mobbed, such as in the backline. If you don't aggro the mob before you attack, then you'll land 4+ hits.

You can also bring more frontliners in your party to ball the mob up. Your attackers will charge in and meet to be close enough to get enough arrows out at once.

Tenebrae · Feb 18, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage.

Stop right there. Regularly means more than 70% of the times or more you are hitting 5 or more foes with every barrage you shot and like we all know pal , thats a plain lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

If you don't aggro the mob before you attack, then you'll land 4+ hits.

That works for the first shot and only because sometimes they ball up when they "smell you" , many other times wont work. Land first hit and they will move out of adj range for sure , leaving you with 1 or 2 shots per barrage if you are lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

You can also bring more frontliners in your party to ball the mob up. Your attackers will charge in and meet to be close enough to get enough arrows out at once.

Cough *tank and spank* cough. Read #63 For some truth. Im not going to take the classic "if half of the team works for me , then barrage bla bla bla" argument because its pointless in any skill > another skill discussion.
Damn you even have to hit the mob in the middle ( lol @ that when they are not perf balled ) because if you dont , you only hit 3 or 4 foes pfff.

distilledwill · Feb 18, 2010, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I run a dagger ranger without a pet in PvE (jagged, fox fangs, death blossom, exhausting assault, escape, lightning reflexes, asuran scan, ss sig of return) and the DPS is pretty good, especially with SoH and Splinter Weapon thrown around. So thats definately something to think about if you want to DPS on a ranger.

- Although, you would be just as well just running good heroes and letting them DPS for you - leaving you to run utility like interupts (still useful in HM if you are clever with them), daze (BHA), poison spreading (incendiary - particularly useful when using a SoS rit hero with splinter @14 chan), etc.

I would agree with you SY is the balls. I would, however, argue that it is not absolutely essential in PvE - even in HM. Ive attained legendary vanquisher without using SY even once, Im sure it would have been even easier if I'd crowbared it into my build, but I never really saw an overwhelming need to do so. I use it on my Imbagon, have a lot of fun with it, but you can easily get on without it if you are smart with your builds

(I tend to run 2 discord necros, one with healing prayers (patient, heal other, draw cons, cure hex) and one with minions, putrid bile, death nova, aegis and prot spirit. Then a SoS rit with splinter, and resto heals. - they provide enough damage on their own really.

Moonlit Azure · Feb 18, 2010, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Stop right there. Regularly means more than 70% of the times or more you are hitting 5 or more foes with every barrage you shot and like we all know pal , thats a plain lie.

Why not? Its not like a mob lasts long enough to constantly hit them with tons of arrows. And where did you get that percentage from. I didn't even say 5 or more. Why would I lie? Keep on trollin'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

That works for the first shot and only because sometimes they ball up when they "smell you" , many other times wont work. Land first hit and they will move out of adj range for sure , leaving you with 1 or 2 shots per barrage if you are lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Of course once you hit them, the mob will break up and attack you

Thats what I said, but you just took my post out of context and disregarded everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Cough *tank and spank* cough. Read #63 For some truth. Im not going to take the classic "if half of the team works for me , then barrage bla bla bla" argument because its pointless in any skill > another skill discussion.
Damn you even have to hit the mob in the middle ( lol @ that when they are not perf balled ) because if you dont , you only hit 3 or 4 foes pfff.

Alright, lets see #63.

Quote:

for a perfect barrage happen 0,00001% times ingame even with Tank and Spank. Outside tank and spank and old B/P groups the elite is BS because of the "adjacent" req. IA with its "nearby" range beats the crap out of it and doesnt remove your preparations so you can have +7/10 bonus from Expert Focus/Read the Wind.

Nice job throwing out another bullcrap percentage. And have fun with your 5 second recharge on IA, while I can get around 4 barrages in IA shot. And it can only hit up to 3 foes also, barrage has a better potential while IA is limited by the amount of targets and recharge time. It doesn't even add damage, barrage is like a preparation in itself.

Chthon · Feb 18, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I know at least for me it is. It's hard to get AI to stay in one place, even if they -are- snared. Adjacent doesn't give much room to work with. Playing a dervish, I know hitting two-three people is a bit of a rarity. Granted the AoE is slightly smaller with dervs, but still. I cannot see maximizing the potential of barrage very often in casual play.

But AoE and Single Target DPS is two completely different strategies, really. Some people prefer to kill single targets fastest as an active defense, some prefer to hit as many things at once and have many things die at once. Put into perspective, you can't say Barrage is simply better then single target damage, because it's trying to accomplish different goals.

So, I'd like to hear your ways of getting all monsters to stick together in most battles, and I'm not even being sarcastic here lol. I can't see barrage worth using against volley unless you're hitting 5-6 people with it regularly.

I feel like I'm teaching GW 101 instead of talking about a ranger-specific issue here, but I'll try to do as you asked.

There's 2 sides to hitting adjacent targets reliably: observing the mob and manipulating the mob.

Let's start with observing the mob. If there's more than 4 or 5 monsters alive, it is very nearly a certainty that there are at least 2 adjacent monsters. You just have to pay attention to find them. First, train yourself to actively choose every target you attack. Stop C-spacing and turn off the "select closest foe" UI option. Second, learn to visually recognize when two foes are adjacent. Third, once you've learned how to pick out the adjacent foes, re-learn how to prioritize (ie do you hit 2 eles or 1 monk?).

A good "drill" for this is to use an AP-MoP necro in NM. Don't give yourself Barbs. Give your heroes great defense, but gimp them offensively. Now, go kill things with MoP. You'll learn how to pick out adjacent targets really fast, since you have no other way of dealing damage.

If you totally ignore the rest of this post and just focus on picking out the adjacent monsters that are already there, you can do well enough to justify Barrage.

Now, let's talk about manipulating the mob. 90% of placing the mob is in how you make the initial aggro. Mostly you are abusing the fact that the monsters all have the same path-finding routine. Present like-minded monsters with substantially similar stimuli, and they will always make the same decisions as each other, resulting in a nice bunch.

1. Many stationary mobs have a spread-out-then-clump-up idle routine. Wait to aggro until they are bunched. That way you make sure they all start their path-finding with a similar startpoint.
2. If there's a nice wall or corner, use it. No, this isn't tank-n-spank where every single mob must be perfectly stuck on a wall or corner or everyone dies. But even if we reject tank-n-spank, we can still use the terrain when it conveniently presents us with an advantage. If you've got a nice corner, pull the mob around it, and maybe even block it with your stoutest melee. (The rise of ER makes almost anyone able to be a makeshift tank.) Even without bodyblocking the monsters, forcing them along a wall is still going to tighten them up.
3. Get monsters all headed towards the same place by initially giving them only one target to choose from. Since monsters give a high weight to proximity in choosing who to attack, use one guy out ahead of your group to initiate the aggro. At least for a moment, he will be the only target. That means all the monsters will head straight for him, with the casters/rangers/paras stopping once they get in range. Since this isn't tank-n-spank, you're eventually going to want to have either that guy retreat or other party members advance. Just wait a couple moments so that the monsters start bunching first. (I'm going to call this guy a "puller," even though he doesn't necessarily drag mobs long distances or spend more than a couple seconds doing his thing like most people think when they hear "puller.")
3a. To get casters (and rangers and paras) to ball with each other, you need to either (a) aggro from outside their range so that all of them need to move to attack you, and the closest in-range spot for all of them is the same spot, or (b) aggro while in range of only the closest one so that all the others need to move to attack you, and the closest in-range spot for all of them is the spot where the one you aggroed is standing, or (c) aggro from in-range, then immediately retreat out of range to create a situation like (a). To do (a) usually requires a flatbow/longbow or aggroing a melee that's closer to you than the casters.
3b. Since this isn't tank-n-spank, when they get close enough, eventually the melees are going to break for a different target (unless you pulled with your squishiest person). This is OK. So long as you got them close enough together before introducing new potential targets, they are going to break for the same new target, and, thus, stick together.
3c. A common problem with balling melees is that they often start from very different places, so they arrive at the puller -- or at the point where they'll break for a new target -- piecemeal. The solution to this is to keep everyone else back until the last melees reach the puller, while the puller distracts the early arrivers with the Smite Crawler Dosado. Anyone who did UW trapper farming way back when should know this maneuver. Do a little 4-sided dance step to kite the early arrivers while keeping your overall position more-or-less in the same direction for the late arrivers. (Or, if the puller is a melee, just stand there and smack the early arrivers.) Another option is to just ignore the melees and let them spread out if the mob is primarily casters.
4. Getting melee monsters bunched with ranged monsters is hard. So hard it's generally not worth bothering outside of tank-n-spank. If you really want to try, you must either bodyblock them with your own melees and minions before they get away from their casters, or have whoever they are attacking advance so as to kite them back into their own casters. It's much more practical to just kite melee into their own melee to produce a bunch.

I guess I should add a few parting words about keeping foes balled once you have them balled.
1. Think twice before using skills that cause AoE flee. It's generally not worth breaking up that ball for a small bit of damage.
2. Think twice before doing something that's going to cause a monster to move.
2a. Ranged monsters are going to move if either (a) everyone kites out of their range, or (b) their current target is near death and kites out of their range. So, you should (a) always leave someone in range of the ranged monsters, and (b), if you need to kite them, do it before they get you so low on health that they'll chase you.
2b. Melee monsters like to go after squishy people who pretty much need to kite them. That's going to make them move. Your two options are to bodyblock them before they reach the squishies, or for the squishies to kite the melee back together into a bunch.

I suspect you already knew most of that. You probably just weren't putting it into practice.

Tenebrae · Feb 19, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Why not? Its not like a mob lasts long enough to constantly hit them with tons of arrows. And where did you get that percentage from. I didn't even say 5 or more. Why would I lie? Keep on trollin'

You said Regularly and thats false , also said "I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage" and from where i come from 4+ means 5 or more .Keep on lying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Thats what I said, but you just took my post out of context and disregarded everything else.

Thats what you just did , notice the "SOMETIMES" you didnt use , like what you said ALWAYS happen ( and is not like that ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Nice job throwing out another bullcrap percentage.

Another ? ok , lets explain it so you can understand it . When i said that 0,000X or whatever i meant is that perf barrage happens almost never , got it now ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

And have fun with your 5 second recharge on IA, while I can get around 4 barrages in IA shot. And it can only hit up to 3 foes also, barrage has a better potential while IA is limited by the amount of targets and recharge time. It doesn't even add damage, barrage is like a preparation in itself.

Excuse me , are you on crack ?. Barrage bar is Barrage + filler + Buffs , IA bar has IA + attack skills + prep and you know ..... you can use those attack skills meanwhile IA recharges !!!! awesome !!!!

......

#63 QFT and fyi , 2-3 sec burning is armor ignoring damage too pal so yes , its about +28/42 per IA x2 or x3 ( yes , because nearby range grants A HELL lot more hits than adj ). If you really were a main Ranger you would know it but right now , your credibility is pretty low pal soz.

Moonlit Azure · Feb 19, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

You said Regularly and thats false , also said "I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage" and from where i come from 4+ means 5 or more .Keep on lying.

4+ meaning 4 OR MORE. GREATER THAN EQUAL TO FOUR.

Quote:

Thats what you just did , notice the "SOMETIMES" you didnt use , like what you said ALWAYS happen ( and is not like that ).

Maybe I should make myself clearer. I was referring to your second sentence, actually.

Quote:

Land first hit and they will move out of adj range for sure , leaving you with 1 or 2 shots per barrage if you are lucky.

I made that statement before

Quote:

Of course once you hit them, the mob will break up and attack you

but you didn't seem to notice and resorted to your ad hominems again.

Quote:

Another ? ok , lets explain it so you can understand it . When i said that 0,000X or whatever i meant is that perf barrage happens almost never , got it now ?

http://tinypic.com/r/5dq6qc/6

mobs are bigger in hm

Quote:

Excuse me , are you on crack ?. Barrage bar is Barrage + filler + Buffs , IA bar has IA + attack skills + prep and you know ..... you can use those attack skills meanwhile IA recharges !!!! awesome !!!!

My barrage bar isn't filled with crap either. I can easily use skills like ebsh and "I am the strongest" to boost my damage also. Are you forgetting that barrage adds a lot of damage?

Quote:

#63 QFT and fyi , 2-3 sec burning is armor ignoring damage too pal so yes , its about +28/42 per IA x2 or x3 ( yes , because nearby range grants A HELL lot more hits than adj ).

IA doesnt compare to barrage for multiple hits. Post # 61

Quote:

Barrage(@14) potentially does 700% normal arrow damage, plus 7x buff damage, plus 133. Volley(@14) potentially does 400% normal arrow damage, plus 4x buff damage, plus 36. Incendiary Arrows(@4) potentially does 300% normal arrow damage, plus 3x buff damage, plus 84.

Chthon · Feb 19, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

You said Regularly and thats false , also said "I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage" and from where i come from 4+ means 5 or more .Keep on lying.

4+ meaning 4 OR MORE. GREATER THAN EQUAL TO FOUR.

Attempting to argue basic mathematics with Tenebrae is a doomed endeavor. You should just give up. I still haven't convinced him that 3*1.8 is not 6. I don't think you're going to be able to convince him that 4+ means "four or more" either.

For the record, at first glance I also mistakenly took your post to mean that you always hit 4+ targets whenever you use Barrage -- which strikes me as impossible, if for no other reason than you will kill the mob down to 3 guys sooner or later. I would believe that you hit 4+ targets rather often when you use Barrage, often enough to make it the best option. I probably wouldn't believe that you hit 4+ targets on average when you use Barrage, but I'm not sure if that's impossible or just impractically hard. I'd probably even believe that you hit 4+ targets on average, in circumstances that matter, when you use Barrage. And that seems to be the gist of your post: you're highlighting situations where the mob is still a viable threat -- right at the start of the battle, when there's still a bunch of casters alive, etc. -- and noting Barrage's performance in those circumstances.

Tenebrae · Feb 19, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Attempting to argue basic mathematics with Tenebrae is a doomed endeavor. You should just give up. I still haven't convinced him that 3*1.8 is not 6. I don't think you're going to be able to convince him that 4+ means "four or more" either.

HAHAHAHHAHA i KNEW you were going to fall for that ,god i even thought about editing to make it more obvious but i wasnt sure if you were going to notice the bait. Dude you are so predictable .... like your pointless maths.
Feel free to post a screen in wich someone hits ingame 1.8 times and ill shut up , until you do that cut the crap please.

See ? even someone that lives for those stupid decimals that only matter in maths because in GW dont exist can see that you bluffed.
"I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage"
Soz pal , you are not fooling anyone , lets move on.
Any other chances for DPS elites on REGULAR pve ( yes H/H most ) except ? :
-Prep shot
-Glass Arrows
-Enraged Lunge
-Expert Dext
-Marks Wager ( thanks Ugh )

Ugh · Feb 19, 2010, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

HAHAHAHHAHA i KNEW you were going to fall for that ,god i even thought about editing to make it more obvious but i wasnt sure if you were going to notice the bait. Dude you are so predictable .... like your pointless maths.
Feel free to post a screen in wich someone hits ingame 1.8 times and ill shut up , until you do that cut the crap please.

I think I'm missing something here...

Quote:

Regularly means more than 70% of the times or more you are hitting 5 or more foes with every barrage you shot and like we all know pal , thats a plain lie.

"Reguarly" can just mean that such an event is not uncommon (which is true, depending on the area).

Quote:

Any other chances for DPS elites on REGULAR pve ( yes H/H most ) except ? :
-Prep shot
-Glass Arrows
-Enraged Lunge
-Expert Dext
-Expert Focus

Expert Focus isn't elite. Maybe you meant Marksman's Wager?

And no, those elites and Barrage are pretty much the best ones for ranger DPS (in my opinion, anyway).

Moonlit Azure · Feb 19, 2010, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Attempting to argue basic mathematics with Tenebrae is a doomed endeavor. You should just give up. I still haven't convinced him that 3*1.8 is not 6. I don't think you're going to be able to convince him that 4+ means "four or more" either.

Some people refuse to appeal to logic I guess.

Quote:

For the record, at first glance I also mistakenly took your post to mean that you always hit 4+ targets whenever you use Barrage -- which strikes me as impossible, if for no other reason than you will kill the mob down to 3 guys sooner or later. I would believe that you hit 4+ targets rather often when you use Barrage, often enough to make it the best option. I probably wouldn't believe that you hit 4+ targets on average when you use Barrage, but I'm not sure if that's impossible or just impractically hard. I'd probably even believe that you hit 4+ targets on average, in circumstances that matter, when you use Barrage. And that seems to be the gist of your post: you're highlighting situations where the mob is still a viable threat -- right at the start of the battle, when there's still a bunch of casters alive, etc. -- and noting Barrage's performance in those circumstances.

Yes, thats what I meant.

I've been messing around with uncommon elites for my ranger, but I cant find a good use for Marksman's Wager. Maybe to spam certain pve skills like ebon vanguard assassin support, but it seems useless compared to skills like prepared shot. Any ideas?

maxxfury · Feb 19, 2010, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

I think I'm missing something here...
.

All your missing is that simple math can conveniently be ignored.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=66

Back to the main point, Been able to manage agro is a simple thing to do, unless you can only play something akin to discoway. If you cant consistently get the attention of a hand full of enemies in pve, then you need to (re)learn the basics...

But im not surprised that in these time people dont know how to corner pull for example or even know what it is, with the way pve is now, SF tanks, discoway or a free agro physway with SY, they all take away any 'finesse' from the older times purely because its rarely needed now in this post power creep era

Its almost a lost artform of gw..

Like gettin your warrior to hold pont at a corner and getting your ranger to send an arrow from a flatty into the group and 'pull through' the warrior, getting them cought up between the warrior and the wall, bunching up the melee and ranged all on him for an easy perfect "pull".....meh, getting nostalgic again :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I've been messing around with uncommon elites for my ranger, but I cant find a good use for Marksman's Wager. Maybe to spam certain pve skills like ebon vanguard assassin support, but it seems useless compared to skills like prepared shot. Any ideas?

Gives you more juice that prepshot and enough juice to cast Asuran Scan on recharge, and abuse all the 10e bow skills as well as concussion shot and your pve skills like Ebsoh again on recharge, tho the downside is if you either miss via LoS or are blinded/miss% hex'd then your energy hits zero FAST..and that you loose out on a +dam prep.
You need to be able to be kept clean, and cleaned fast to keep it running efficiently. ^

Chthon · Feb 19, 2010, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

I think I'm missing something here...

You really don't want to know. If you can't help yourself, the discussion starts with post 46 in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I've been messing around with uncommon elites for my ranger, but I cant find a good use for Marksman's Wager. Maybe to spam certain pve skills like ebon vanguard assassin support, but it seems useless compared to skills like prepared shot. Any ideas?

It's basically the ranger equivalent of WE or ZV. Unfortunately, rangers don't have any skills like Power Attack that suddenly become good if only we could afford to spam them on the recharge. The ranger skillset is balanced almost exclusively by recharge instead of energy cost. The only thing that perhaps comes close is spamming Concussion Shot, but that's dicey in HM and needs to compete with BHA. Most of the PvE skills are also limited by recharge, so there's little to gain there by having more energy available.

One possible use is as very expensive bar compression. You can compress PrepShot + a prep into 1 skillslot... at the cost of losing the damage from both skills.

DBMan · Feb 19, 2010, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

HAHAHAHHAHA i KNEW you were going to fall for that ,god i even thought about editing to make it more obvious but i wasnt sure if you were going to notice the bait. Dude you are so predictable .... like your pointless maths.
Feel free to post a screen in wich someone hits ingame 1.8 times and ill shut up , until you do that cut the crap please.

See ? even someone that lives for those stupid decimals that only matter in maths because in GW dont exist can see that you bluffed.
"I regularly can hit 4+ targets with barrage"
Soz pal , you are not fooling anyone , lets move on.
Any other chances for DPS elites on REGULAR pve ( yes H/H most ) except ? :
-Prep shot
-Glass Arrows
-Enraged Lunge
-Expert Dext
-Expert Focus

HAHAHAHAHAH. Admitting at an attempt to troll is not something to be proud of.

maxxfury · Feb 19, 2010, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

It's basically the ranger equivalent of WE or ZV. Unfortunately, rangers don't have any skills like Power Attack that suddenly become good if only we could afford to spam them on the recharge. The ranger skillset is balanced almost exclusively by recharge instead of energy cost.

Said it better than i did one post up

*shakes head at self

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBMan

HAHAHAHAHAH. Admitting at an attempt to troll is not something to be proud of.

You see a lot of

around the internets these days. Its almost an epidemic. You get used to it.

Moonlit Azure · Feb 19, 2010, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

It's basically the ranger equivalent of WE or ZV. Unfortunately, rangers don't have any skills like Power Attack that suddenly become good if only we could afford to spam them on the recharge. The ranger skillset is balanced almost exclusively by recharge instead of energy cost. The only thing that perhaps comes close is spamming Concussion Shot, but that's dicey in HM and needs to compete with BHA. Most of the PvE skills are also limited by recharge, so there's little to gain there by having more energy available.

One possible use is as very expensive bar compression. You can compress PrepShot + a prep into 1 skillslot... at the cost of losing the damage from both skills.

Maybe pack concussion shot and crippling shot plus some other skills for a gimmicky pvp build. To me it looks like marksman's wager was made for the higher energy nature rituals instead.

Oath Shot seems interesting, but then you'd be wasting a lot of energy using it. Again it would work great with nature rituals, seeing how squishy they are. But nature rituals are not very good at all either.

maxxfury · Feb 19, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Oath Shot seems interesting, but then you'd be wasting a lot of energy using it.

AP smokes Oathshot in almost every way imo! Other than it class locks you into R/a and means you have to spec deadly a little..

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 19, 2010, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I suspect you already knew most of that. You probably just weren't putting it into practice.

Yes, I did, and I've done it before. I just don't like a bar dedicated to adjacent AoE damage, because of how limiting it is.

I thought there was something I was missing, but I guess not.

Rhamia Darigaz · Feb 19, 2010, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

While ranger IAS options do suck, Frenzy is available, and dropping down to 25% IAS is usually worth the trade for a better elite.

wat

12 wats...